The Silver Linings Playlist
Not every movie wraps up with a neat little bow on the end. Some leave you asking "what the f@#$?!" We're here to find the silver lining in the latter. Join Dustin, Mallie, and Nathan every other Monday as we try to find the light at the end of the tunnel for some of cinema's bleakest endings - and have some laughs while doing so.
The Silver Linings Playlist
Episode 227: Memories of Murder
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We’re taking a turn back into Korean cinema this week as we’re reviewing an absolute classic that’s still in IMDb’s Top 200 and Letterboxd’s Top 50 greatest films of all time. Memories of Murder isn’t a conventional murder mystery; it’s light and funny when it can be while also weaving a web of uncertainty and hopelessness, something only the great Bong Joon ho can accomplish. So slip into your Nice (not Nike) sneakers and look us in the eyes as we break open this film, plus discussions on how the ‘80s weren’t as glamorous as the movies try to make them out to be, the ineptitude of police detectives, an overabundance of flying jump kicks, and more.
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Memories of Murder stars Song Kang-Ho, Kim Sang-kyung, Kim Roe-ha, Song Jae-ho, Park Hae-Il, and Go Seo-hee. Directed by Bong Joon ho.
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I'm Ethan Simmons, and they say I have a shaman's eyes.
SPEAKER_03And I'm just a ghost of Hollywood, and let me tell you about America. We've got the FBI. And this is the Silver Lightnings playlist, a podcast that's like asking who made up the elephant jokes? Oh, welcome everyone to a dower episode. It sure is.
SPEAKER_02This is the most fun we'll have.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's all downhill from here. Yeah. Nathan, Memories of Murder. This is your pick.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Let's talk about it. Why, why now? Why this movie?
SPEAKER_02So, Memories of Murder is uh a movie I saw for the first time this year. And as happens with us occasionally, the second that uh credits started rolling, I said, I've gotta talk about this on the podcast. I uh am a huge fan of Bong Jun-ho, and this was one that I'd been wanting to check out for a while. Picked it up during the last Criterion sale at Barnes Noble. And we've talked about what I love about Korean filmmaking on this podcast before when we when we discussed Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, but the thing that really strikes me about this movie is its incredible command of tone, which every once in a while veers a little too far. This is not a perfect film, but it's pretty damn near, in my opinion. I this is a movie based on, and you know, maybe a little bit of a trigger warning up top for our listeners, a series of sexual assaults and murders that occurred in Korea in the 1980s. And at the time that this movie was made, the killer had never been caught. And so Bong Jun-ho wanted to make a film that sort of explored from the perspective of the police, right? Like it's sort of a dark comedy about the ineptitude of the police in the area, but also a searing drama about civil unrest and all of the things going on in the country at that time that caused the destabilization and maybe led to the rise of killers. And it's a supremely uncomfortable, but also often very funny movie.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I've ever seen anything quite like this that threads the needle in this way. And the thing that I keep coming back to is the idea that Bon Jun ho knew that the killer was likely to see this film. That was something that he like thought about going into making it. And so there are multiple times in the movie where the film takes a second to just basically point right at the motherfucker in the audience, but at the same time, sort of shows the police, maybe from the killer's perspective, of like, well, this is how ridiculous they have to be if they're not catching me yet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's a fascinating, bizarre picture that I've been thinking about since I watched it the first time. And uh, so I I've been chomping at the bit to discuss it with you guys.
SPEAKER_03Right on. Well, if this is your first time tuning in, we are the Silver Linux playlist, as I mentioned, where a podcast that watches movies such as Memories of Murder that don't end on a happily ever after note, and we try to find the good in them. Normally there's a third host here, uh Mally, but he uh got tetanus last I heard, and he's in the hospital. That's right. He got in a bar fight, got hit with a rusty nail. You know how these things go. Rusty nail. But uh JT's here. JT, you watched this movie. How do you feel about it? I did. I watched it way too late, and it's way too early. Yeah, we're recording this early in the morning.
SPEAKER_01Like, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know what what is a good time to talk about the content that this movie has. I know, yeah. But either way, like uh it was okay. I was gonna say, like, following like this SVU type situation where it's like going to different murders and stuff like that. Yeah, but I don't know, man. Seeing how corrupt these cops are, that was surprising to me. Yeah. Not corrupt, but like forcing confessions and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02I was like, Jesus Christ, yeah, and chasing headlines. Yeah, it's a procedural where all the procedures are wrong. Yep.
SPEAKER_01But also, Nathan, I didn't know that this was based on like a true story. Yeah, this has been happening, it's inspired by it, yeah. And so I'm sure there were officers who were like forcing confessions, like trying to pin this on anybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like when you watch one of those documentaries about like Ted Bundy, and they're like, How do they get away with it for so long? And you see interviews with police officers who are like, Well, someone came to me and told me that Ted Bundy tried to murder them, and I was like, That's probably fine. Yeah, like you know, like it's it is it's so nuts.
SPEAKER_03What you come to realize the older you get is that police are mostly dumb. Like their job is to find killers and all these other horrible things. They're mostly inept and they handle crime scenes ineffectively, and like it's not as glamorous as it is in the movies.
SPEAKER_02And especially at this time, they're crazy underfunded. Their society is ripping apart at the scams, they're dealing with public unrest and riots. These guys are living in lower income housing and they're just trying to do their best. And sometimes their best is I gotta get results, regardless of if it's the correct result.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But in the case of our lead character or one of our lead characters here, I think there's a part of him that thinks I'm doing a good job just by doing my job. You know, like he there's a part of him that wants to believe in his own bullshit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like he operates like he's the main character of an 80s action movie, but he's just some doughy guy who's doing his best, which his best is still kind of shitty.
SPEAKER_03The amount of times, like, because Priscilla watches true crime stuff a lot, and the amount of times, like, you know, she'll be watching and I'll be on my phone, whatever, and I overhear like, and so-and-so went to the cops, but they didn't, you know, take down their testimony or they didn't think that that tip was worth investigating. I'm like, oh, so just cops are inept. That's what I'm learning, is that if anything ever happens, don't even bother with the police. Go to the community, they're the ones who get the results.
SPEAKER_02Right. And I also want to throw out Song Kang Ho, again, one of my favorite actors on the planet. And he's he's locked the fuck in in this movie.
SPEAKER_03This was my first time seeing it, and I loved it. Gave it four out of five stars on Letterboxd. And the only reason it didn't make it any further than that is because, and I think this will be controversial, but I don't know if I buy the ending.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_03By the ending, I literally mean the epilogue. I don't know if that's true to the movie and true to the character of Park. But we'll get there when we get there.
SPEAKER_02Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_03So if you haven't seen Memories of Murder, it is a movie that asks the age-old question what if a murder had memories?
SPEAKER_02What if you remembered a murder?
SPEAKER_03Is that title simply referring to like present-day Park? Like he's reminiscing about this time?
SPEAKER_02I think so. Okay. And I think it's also just like the nation was kind of gripped by this, right? Things like this leave, like they reverberate.
SPEAKER_03Well, uh, let's get into the info dump for memories of murder. So the year is 2003. The director, as we mentioned, is the great Bong Jun Ho, the lovable guy that brought you such great films as Parasite, Snowpiercer, and the host.
SPEAKER_02Fuck yeah.
SPEAKER_03The movie stars Song Kang Ho, Kim Sang kyung, Kim Roha, Song Joe Ho, Parquet 2, I guess the second, Parquet the second, and Go Sio Hee. The budget was 2.8 million. It managed to gross just $1.2 million worldwide. Currently sits at a 95% on Rotten Tomatoes, and it is currently number 194 on IMDB's top 250 movies of all time.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah. Just wanted to throw out it's Park Hey Il.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Park Hey Il. Oh, not two. You know what it is? It's my my font. It looks like it's too capitalized. I was like, oh, it's the second. Okay.
SPEAKER_02I will say we're probably look, we're we're three white guys trying to do our best with South Korean names. So we we really will do our best, but uh there's gonna be give us a little bit of grace here.
SPEAKER_03If you ever listen to like our Timothy Mr. Vengeance episode or Battle Royale episode or our old boy episode, you know, I'm not very good at pronouncing ancient names, so I apologize.
SPEAKER_02Or our blue is the warmest color episode. I can't do Greek names either. The night comes for us. Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_03All right, so there is no trailer for us to play for this thing because of course it's in Korean, and that just wouldn't be interesting to listen to for our non-Korean speaking listeners. So let's dive right into this thing. But we're fluent for sure. My first note, Nathan, I almost thought we were getting an Orion picture with this CG entertainment bumper here at the beginning.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's that lion?
SPEAKER_03So in a small Korean town in 1986, Detective Park, that's Sung Hang Ho finds a woman's corpse in a drainage ditch alongside a wheat field bound and covered in ants and flies. Yeah. And there is evidence that she was sexually assaulted as well.
SPEAKER_02And immediately you get the idea that he takes himself very seriously and nobody else does. Yep. He's riding on the world's slowest tractor to get to this crime scene. He does not have a police vehicle that he's using at this point. He's followed by a bunch of kids to the point where he has to tell them to just like fuck off. And then there's a this little kid with a jar of bugs who's like acts like he's afraid Park's gonna confiscate them. And he keeps getting like mocked by these children. There's this one kid in particular who keeps like mirroring his looks and mocking him and copying him. And you get the feeling that this guy is like one day away from just wringing somebody's neck because he just wants to do his fucking job.
SPEAKER_03And this score of this movie is so good, but at this point in particular, it sounds like it should play over the end credits of like an early Resident Evil game. And that's not a complaint. I'm totally here for it.
SPEAKER_02No, it's it's so lush. And this is like one of the few moments of bright sunshine, high color contrast we get in the movie because a lot of it is very dour, a lot of interior shots, and a lot of rainy days.
SPEAKER_03A lot of desaturated colors, too. Yes.
SPEAKER_02And we get just this montage of Park trying to interrogate suspects, and you you quickly realize he's just winging it. Yep. He's hunting and pecking on the typewriter. He's asking questions like, Hey, this is an assault case. So did you think that the victim was pretty? Don't look at the ceiling, look at me. Like he's he has no idea what he's doing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this whole case is fucked right from the beginning because there's also a second woman's corpse found in a field nearby. Man, how did they solve any crimes in the 80s? Like, I know we talked about they just had to get a job done, so a lot of innocent people probably were punished for this stuff, but there's no structure to this crime scene. Yeah. There's kids running around, a tractor drives over a footprint that's found at this crime scene.
SPEAKER_02This scene is the moment where I locked into I think what I what this movie is gonna be. I mean, it is it's so hectic and so frustrating, but also really funny. Like there's dudes from the forensics team who are just falling down a hill instead of walking around.
SPEAKER_01I love this recurring bit. I will say there's a hundred percent more flying jump kicks in this movie than I expected there to be. Dude, yes. Oh, we will talk about it. This shit is wild. That's his signature move, and it works, dude.
SPEAKER_03There's a guy later on in the bar that's got like white slacks on that I thought was like they were like kind of mimicking Jackie Chan, the way he just comes flying in from off-screen all the time.
SPEAKER_01Dude, that's so funny, and it's great form, it's not even goofy.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So Park is pissed off. He's like, then no one roped the scene off. There's like children everywhere, nobody is taking pictures, there's reporters on the crime scene. Where the hell is forensics?
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And this is still when forensics is like a new thing. Like getting DNA evidence is new. And to the point where, like, when they have a uh a semen sample later on, they can't even like test it. They have to send it off to America because they don't have the technology for it.
SPEAKER_02They have to mail it to America. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's mail and come, come mail. I'll try to sprinkle in as many jokes as I can.
SPEAKER_02But don't worry, we'll still have some jokes here and there. Yeah. And he tells the chief, he's like, if I keep staring at the photos of these suspects, it's gonna hit me. Like I'm just I'm gonna intuit who the murderer is.
SPEAKER_03I love this kind of recurring bit because right here, yeah, he's talking to the chief police, and the chief is like, Okay, if you think you're so you know good at determining who's a killer and who's a not, take a look at these two guys. Look at these two guys. Yeah, this guy brought his friend in who his sister. Yeah. And they got into a scuffle. So you tell me which one's the and which one's not. And I love that we don't get an answer here. That he just stares at these two and we cut to the next scene.
SPEAKER_02The next scene, which is him failing to perform in bed with his girlfriend. He says, I think it fell out. She goes, Really?
SPEAKER_03And he goes, Yeah, let's do this properly. Dude, you never want to utter that phrase where the lady's on top of you. You never want to go, I think it fell out. I think it fell out. That's sad.
SPEAKER_02Can you help me find it? His girlfriend is someone who was in the nursing sector, quit her job, and is now basically like a town nurse. Like people just come to her, she buys the medical supplies.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it seems like a bleak existence, right? Like both of them want more than what they have, but he's also like, Hey, you're really cool. Everyone's coming to you for medical advice. I'm on the verge of breaking this huge case. Yeah. Like he's deluding himself.
SPEAKER_03No, this shit's sad. They're like sleeping on the floor. They can't even afford a bed. It's sad. But yeah, he starts telling her about details of the case, and she goes, Oh, yeah, well, there's this locally known mentally disturbed young man, Quang Ho, who I saw following around one of your victims recently.
SPEAKER_02It's not even that. She said, Yeah, he used to follow the murdered girl everywhere. And then she says, This old senile lady across the street saw them together.
SPEAKER_03Right, right.
SPEAKER_02And he's like, Oh, well, this is a perfect lead. And unfortunately, this leads to a recurring bit where the police shake down a mentally delayed young man who uh is very susceptible to being interrogated and led on and sort of coached into admitting things he did not do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And he's like fucking up his arcade game too. What an asshole. Yeah. He kidnaps this guy and interrogates him and he like strips him down to his underwear. I'm I'm glad this scene doesn't go too far. I agree. Because Park's partner Joe comes in and, like JC said, just starts kicking this guy, like just drop kicks him.
SPEAKER_02And he he sets it up by saying, My nicer friend is coming by, so don't worry. He's just gonna talk to you. Cho shows up and flying kicks this guy and immediately puts a shower cap on his boots so he can kick him some more.
SPEAKER_03And doesn't get blood on his shoes and everything. Right.
SPEAKER_01If it wasn't, I don't know, I guess it's the fact that it one, they're trying to force confessions and beating him for absolutely no reason. No reason. Any other scene, this would have been so funny. Yeah. Like it just this guy is unhinged.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's shot comedically. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like a lot of this is comedic, but yeah, it's just aneptitude that's funny. It's not necessarily the subject matter.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's not what they're doing. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Also just want to note that I watch this with subtitles on, and when comparing a lot of the character names to what is written on like Wikipedia and everything, I may get some of these names wrong because I have these subtitles that name this character Joe Jo on IMDb, he's credited as Cho. So my apologies if I get any of that wrong.
SPEAKER_02That's interesting. I mean, so yeah, maybe some of the names got anglicized in the version you have.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we, while this young man is being interrogated, we're introduced to our other protagonist, Sio, who is a detective from out of town who's been brought in to consult on the case, and we're introduced to him with this really interesting scene that shows how much these murders have affected the psyche of the town already.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02This young woman is walking by a marker where the last murder took place, and when this man asks for directions, she immediately flips out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And also they pass by an effigy that the town has constructed that's got this uh victim's like colored shirt, this red-colored shirt on it, and it says, Turn yourself in or you may rot and die. Yeah. Woof. But yeah, like Detective Sal Taeyun is like trying to, you know, help this girl because she fell off the road, because she ran away from him thinking he was the murderer. Yeah. And Park shows up and like just flying drop kicks him, like thinking he's attacking this girl. Dude.
SPEAKER_02He immediately tries to pull an action hero move, right? Like he he dropkicks him, he starts throwing him around this hill, and then he screams at the lady, he's like, Hey, you gotta come back and file a report. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and she's just taken off. And yeah, that's when we cut to them in the car, and he's like, Oh, I'm also a detective.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they're giving each other shit for like not doing their jobs well. He's like, Well, you should have told me you were a detective. And he's like, You didn't ask for any ideas.
SPEAKER_03I know, I know. And we see that uh Park's got a pair of shoes that belong to Quang Ho. Yeah, and he's just out here planning evidence, basically. He takes the shoe and makes a footprint in the dirt at the crime scene, and then takes a photo of it, like, aha. Mm-hmm. But the hard cut to the three detectives and Quang Ho just eating meat and watching a police procedural is kind of funny.
SPEAKER_02It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03It's kind of funny, but it's also disheartening.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's it's funny, but then also it's punctuated by Kwang Ho saying, I need to call my dad.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I can't remember his phone number. And it's just uh it's despairing, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And Park tries to get Kwang Ho to confess by using the planet evidence, but when he doesn't, they take him out to the woods and they force him to dig his own grave. It's clearly not all their gentlemen. It's very upsetting.
SPEAKER_02They do this and then also their interrogations, they have like Daffy Duck interrogation style. They're saying things like, So at the end of the day, you didn't not kill her, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And he just looks confused.
SPEAKER_03They're like, Yeah, pull the pin, throw the grenade, and he's like, Got it. Pull the grenade, throw the grass. Throw the pin, right?
SPEAKER_02Duck season, wabbit season.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02And they they tell him, Yeah, women hate you. Like, uh, here's tell tell us in the recorder how you feel about women. And he thinks they're playing a game. Like, he starts just kind of feeding back what they told him, and he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna kill them all. And you can see he actually kind of locks in and he starts, you know, repeating the things that they've been telling them, and and they're they prod each little bit of the confession. It's like, no, it wasn't panties, it was the bra, right? Yeah like these things like that. And then he says, Shit, I don't know. How the fuck am I supposed to know what the killer looks like?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think it's interesting because yeah, they start like coercing him into making this quote unquote confession, yeah. But he does start apparently giving details that he couldn't have known unless he was there, but they don't pick up on that because they think he's just doing this game thing, and yeah, so when that doesn't work and they don't get the confession they want, it cuts to the you know the police station and Detective Taeyun, the the one from uh Seoul, he's like doing actual work, yeah, and he notices that Quang Ho has like wet fingers to the point where he says he can't even hold chopsticks, so he knows this guy didn't do it.
SPEAKER_02And he's covered in burns, he's got like nerve damage, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And yet he lets him be carted off to what I think is the most insane scene of the movie where they make him do a reenactment for the press. I look, I know you do like reenactments for like documentaries and whatnot, but during an active criminal investigation, you use the suspect you think did it to take photos for the journalists?
SPEAKER_02And a fella in a wig. It's like this smacks of these guys watch too much television, and they've they think they've finally solved a major case, so they're gonna go all out. They're they're talking to the reporters about what the headline should be. They're staging photographs with the hero cops who brought in the murderer, and not for nothing, Tayun is like, Yeah, go ahead, and then I will embarrass you in front of everyone. Like, it's a pretty great moment for him, but it's very petty.
SPEAKER_03Man, this guy's father shows up at the stage bullshit, and he's like shouting, they tortured you, didn't they? This this whole police precinct is corrupt as shit.
SPEAKER_02And it's such a mess. Yeah, everyone's falling over each other. Meanwhile, Park is like, Well, he knew too much, and Tayun is like, Yeah, you told him all of that shit. And they don't this is one of those moments where if they just sat down and had a conversation with each other instead of trying to one up each other at this point, they could have made a lot of connections way sooner.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it's not until like towards the end of the movie that they realize, spoiler alert, Kwang O was a witness to one of the murders.
SPEAKER_03Yep. I do love this slow-mo shot though, them trying to like drag this guy out of the the camera spotlight and everything. It's just pure chaos. I love that.
SPEAKER_02They still had a party planned. Yeah. Like they they go, they go to get dinner, they're talking about how much they failed. And then the button on the scene being the chief accidentally breaking his chopsticks and going, God damn it. It's so funny.
SPEAKER_03It's like bad luck, right? To like break chopsticks and I love this though because Taeyun randomly drops that there was a third victim, but that no body's been found. Yeah. And he cites a missing person's report in that all the victims were beautiful young women, all killed on rainy nights, all wore red clothing the night they were killed, and within a day he finds the body in the same field as the other girls. Yeah. And at this point in the movie, I wrote down because I was like, I was convinced, I was like, oh, so Tae Yoon is the killer, right?
SPEAKER_02Sure. Because he also is like, yeah, this killer's a pro, he knows exactly what he's doing. Like, it does feel like they're kind of leaning in that direction.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But he's like, he's doing actual police work, and these bumpkins are so pissed off at him for it. You know, he's like, there's this bit where Park is giving this presentation and he's flipping over these sheets of paper with all of his quote unquote evidence.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And at one point, Cho is like, oh yeah, and then they found Semen at the last crime scene. And Park's like, wait, there was semen? Yeah. Like he that's new information to the lead detective on the case.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And meanwhile, the chief is just looking at this photograph of himself in the newspaper celebrating that the murderer was caught. He's just like, this sucks.
SPEAKER_03And then, guys, I have to tell you now, if anyone ever asks me if I want more tenderloin, and my answer isn't a resounding fuck yeah, you guys can kill whatever it is that's pretending to be things. Yeah, exactly. Because we cut to this restaurant, and yeah, the the trio of detectives and the chief of police are like celebrating. Yeah. This is the fucked up part. They go to the restaurant where their supposed killer's dad works.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Kwang Ho's dad's restaurant.
SPEAKER_03I know it's a cultural thing, but when this man, this guy whose mentally disturbed son was wrongfully convicted, like comes in on his knees to serve them. I'm like, this is so fucked.
SPEAKER_02It's so fucked. And they bought him like some knockoff shoes to like make up for the fact that they destroyed his while planting evidence.
SPEAKER_03I hated that.
SPEAKER_02It's just every scene is just like I do love them calling out Park. Like, these are not Nikes. They say nice on the site. Nice are like fucking bootlegs. I also love when they find the third body, the search party, it shows how inept everyone is in the department. It's not just like these like core guys. Someone in the search party walks into this field and goes, Man, there's snakes down there. Like they're just mad that they have to like look through something that's not comfortable to find a body. I know.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, the the trio and the chief police head out for a night at the karaoke bar, but it's bad vibes all around. Oh yeah. The drunkard police chief posits the idea that the next time it rains, a killer will strike again.
SPEAKER_02And then he vomits.
SPEAKER_03And then he vomits. And this is again where I wrap down, yeah, Tayun's definitely the killer because who goes to a karaoke bar and not only doesn't sing, but is like methodically peeling the skin off an apple with a pocket knife in a booth? Like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Maybe someone who's cool as shit.
SPEAKER_03And man, you can't be the chief of police and get fucking hammered at the karaoke bar. This dude is just like passed out.
SPEAKER_02He vomits in the ice bucket and then just screams. He's like, ah and yeah, he has this amazing idea. He's like, you know what we should do is we should catch the killer before he strikes again. I'm like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Good idea, chief.
SPEAKER_03So their plan is let's start using decoys during rainstorms to try and lure the killer out. But after a bunch of tries, nothing happens. And notably during one night, a few passing schoolgirls tell Tae Yoon there's a crazed man that lives in an outhouse behind their middle school. Yeah. We'll come back to that later.
SPEAKER_02Jesus. Like that story, that feels very twin peaks. Yeah. Also like very like Junji Ito. Like it feels like an urban legend, right?
SPEAKER_03Man, what a disappointment that show was. The Jinji Ito. Like the first episode's great, and then it's just like, oh, that's where all the budget went. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The rest of it is basically someone doing a flip book in front of a camera.
SPEAKER_01Could y'all go over the uh political what's going on here? The I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, like because the president's coming to town as like a motorcade and there's just a full-blown riot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's also the conflict of like it was explained in something because that's why they got to do the whole uh drills where they have to all go in and cut off their lights and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02They were worried about terrorist attacks at the time. Okay. And also well, it terrorists, quote unquote, but also like political dissidents. There was a lot of unrest between political parties and people who were protesting the government's overreach and cost of living. And yeah. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Yeah, the 80s was not a good time, like anywhere, no matter how much we try to make nostalgia like put it in like these glowing lights. Like even like most Asian countries at this time, like we talked about this with Akura in the 80s. Like the 80s were just not good for there was just too much of a government overreach, and everyone started to get restless with it and everything.
SPEAKER_02And a big part of it was in the in the 80s there were protests specifically, like basically it was called like a democratic uprising. People were trying to fight for a more democratic government. I mean, uh, you know, I'm I'm very much simplifying it, but there were, you know, student protests, there were not unlike in America, there were students who were killed protesting. It was a very scary time in the country. So adding this on top, this serial killer running around with impunity, it just felt like the entire country was a powder keg.
SPEAKER_03And so we get introduced to um this woman who will become our next victim, unfortunately. But I love that before she heads out into the rain, she's wearing a red jacket and she looks in the mirror and notably takes it off. Yeah. So like this kind of like puts that whole theory to bed.
SPEAKER_02But it's also it shows how much this is getting in everybody's heads. Because she's no doubt read the stories about women in red being murdered during a rainstorm. Yep. And this leads to one of the scariest shots I've ever seen in my entire life. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03Yes. So she's walking down the road, the same road where a lot of the other girls were found. It's raining, it's at night, and she's singing a song to herself, and she hears whistling coming from the tall grass all around her. And she tries to make a run for this local factory that's nearby that's well lit and everything. But before she can make it there, as she's running down the road, we see from her POV a man just bolt out of the grass and tackle her, and we just cut to black. This shit is so scary.
SPEAKER_02And before that happens, the shot of a head poking up from the tall grass behind her very slowly. Dude. Yeah. And then lowering back down is fucking Oh, I missed that. Oh, go back. Because you we just watched it. Is it here? No, no, no. Go back. It's when she it's when she sweeps the flashlight.
SPEAKER_01It's when she pants with the flashlight.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's when she sweeps the the flashlight around the field.
SPEAKER_01Oh shit. I miss that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because she's walking along, singing, she hears whistling. And then this bit right here, as soon as she turns. Oh fuck. I didn't even notice that. That's so scary. Holy shit. Oh my god. It is fucking impeccably directed. Like it is the timing of it is so good. It's so scary.
SPEAKER_03What is Bog Junho's whole idea with like having people's heads slowly raise up into frame? Like that Parasite. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's absolutely that because I remember watching Parasite for the first time, and when the head peeks up from the stairs, I was like, that is the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.
SPEAKER_03And I gotta say, as I'm launching this, I thought I this was Taeyun bolting out from the grass, but I don't think it's anyone that we see else in the movie.
SPEAKER_02I think that's kind of like it's meant to be yeah, be representative.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's it's kind of like how in the thing, anytime they show shadows of characters, it's not any of the characters we know from the movie. Brilliant.
SPEAKER_02And that's an interesting theory that it could be the thing is the killer in this film.
SPEAKER_03So, guys, I'm not a detective.
SPEAKER_02But probably not.
SPEAKER_03But if I had four victims all found around the same field, I would probably set up a patrol nearby to just, you know, keep an eye out on things. Right. Or at the very least, I'd have a couple of officers just like stake out the road and just wait, you know?
SPEAKER_02You'd think that, and then you hear the kinds of theories these guys are coming up with, and you're like, oh, that's why they haven't done anything that I would think to do. Like, Park is like, have you noticed? Um This is crazy. We haven't found any hair from the killer, so the killer must be hairless. And the chief is like, Yeah, walk me through this. And Park's like, we gotta interrogate some monks. Like, it can't just be that the killer is good. We gotta, we gotta stake out some bathhouses, we gotta find a hairless man. We might need to find a monk that's shaved his head.
SPEAKER_03Dude, the cut to Taeyun and the chief of police after he says there's a monastery next door is so fucking fun. They just can't believe that these two fucking ding dogs are starting like this. Yeah. So one of the other police officers, Miss Kwan, notices that on every night of the murders, someone has called into a local radio station and requested the same song on a postcard. Sad letters. Mm-hmm. And I like Park's nice good idea in English with the thumbs up. I thought that was so fucking fun. It's really good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because he's he's like talking down to her. He's like, Why don't you why don't you go out and buy some lipstick? Real men are working here. Like that's essentially his energy.
SPEAKER_03He smacks her on the butt, says, get out of here, toots.
SPEAKER_02He does essentially, he's like, he says, nice, good idea, and then he asks for more tea. Like it's so, and meanwhile, Tayun is like, This is really good police work. You should be a police officer.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I also love that the scene ends with the button of like Park sliding in on his rolly chair out of frame and telling the chief police, so you want me to like follow up on that lead about uh hairless dick men again. And like we just smash cut to him in a bathhouse, just like looking at naked men and boys.
SPEAKER_02One of my favorite lines in the movie is he's watching this guy get dressed in the locker room. And the guy looks at him and he goes, What? Nothing. Just get what you get fucking dressed. Like he tells him to get dressed.
SPEAKER_03Don't look at me, get dressed. God, so funny. Like, I like that he takes this whole lead seriously. He's like, No, I am gonna go just look at a bunch of dicks all day.
SPEAKER_02And we see him at his girlfriend's house, and he's like, I can't take any more fucking baths, I can't get any more sun as my skin's gonna rip off. Like, she's so supportive. She's like, Well, maybe you should send someone else to the showers for a little bit. Or you could talk to a psychic.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so at the most recent crime scene, Park starts performing a similar investigative technique to Dale Cooper's Tibetan trick of breaking glass bottles to find his murderer by following a shaman's instructions of pouring a mixture of dirt from the crime scene and water on a piece of paper, and it's supposed to just form the murderer's face.
SPEAKER_02Like when it dries, we'll see his face.
SPEAKER_03I bet Bong Jun hosts on Twin Peaks. I have to imagine he did.
SPEAKER_02But it's so funny because he's talking to this fortune teller, and she starts to reach behind him, and he goes, Don't fucking try to sell me a charm. And Smash cuts to him in the woods with this like bundle.
SPEAKER_03So fucking funny.
SPEAKER_02And they hear someone in the woods, and Park is like, Oh, it's gotta be the killer. You know, they always return to the crime scene, but it's Tayun who like lights up a cigarette, and even Cho, the other detective, is like, he's been listening to the show because he's like, That guy's fucking cool, right?
SPEAKER_03Look how look how cool Sio is. Look how cool he is smoking. And yeah, so like Tayun doesn't see Parker Cho over there, and as he's also kind of like just stalking around the crime scene, another guy shows up, and this is crazy. He shows up, he goes right to where the body was found, he removes a bra and a pair of women's underwear from his waistband.
SPEAKER_02He like unzips his pants and pulls them like through the zipper hole, basically. Like he just pulls that's already unsettling, but then he lays it down in the configuration of a woman. Like he's like he's looking at the dirt. Like, what's that old Brian Bossein bit where he's like, I used to jerk off to like a magazine of women's sweaters? Yeah. Like when you're a kid, you're like just imagining it full of titties. Like, that's the mental gymnastics here are insane.
SPEAKER_03And he like pulls his pants down and he notably has like this frilly set of red underwear on. Yeah. And he just starts jerking off looking at this bra and panties down there. And Cho steps on a twig, which alerts this guy who takes off, and so the trio give Chase and they find him in like a nearby quarry. But I want to ask you guys, it's not the same guy, right? No, it's the same guy. Because this underwear he's wearing does not look like the same underwear they find him in later to me.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_03This is much more frilly and lacy, and when we, you know, when they go to the quarry and they spot, you know, this guy who bends over and he's got this red underwear on.
SPEAKER_02I think you're right.
SPEAKER_03When they show it, it does not look the same.
SPEAKER_02Maybe it's less frilly in the back.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, maybe. I'm just wondering how many like it's a major coincidence that two guys that work at the same quarry are wearing because it almost looks like women's underwear.
SPEAKER_02It is. Oh, it absolutely is.
SPEAKER_03I feel like it's his sick wife's underwear, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_03Because like, look at this scene where they're interrogating him. This underwear, I'm assuming it's supposed to be the same underwear. It's not nearly as frilly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it looks different.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Maybe it's just me.
SPEAKER_02It looks frilly in the front. Yeah, it does. It looks frilly in the front, but it got much better. The um what I love about this scene though, there's this chaotic chase into this dig site. The music becomes like less percussive and like more orchestral and like fades back and forth depending on how close they are to the suspect. And then Park is finally a good detective. Yep. He has a moment where he notices the one guy with his underwear poking out of his suit, and instead of saying, I spotted the guy with the underwear, he says, Here, grab these three guys, put them in a lineup so he can pretend that his thing about looking the suspect in the eyes is real.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_02It's an incredible moment of like you could be a good cop, but you can't get out of your own bullshit. And once he says, This is our guy, Cho gives him a flying kick.
SPEAKER_03Sure does. Comes in from off screen and just tackles this guy down. This is so fucking funny. But yeah, it turns out this guy, their suspect, is just a guy that uh, you know, the neighborhood vouches for him. He never misses a day of church. He's taking care of his sick wife and kids. Man, this this scene of them in their home is so unsettling. There's just flies everywhere. Yeah. They're just living in squalor.
SPEAKER_02The kids are playing with their dad's porno mags. Like it's really dark. And he tells the cops, he's like, Look, I only did this because I like the breeze. Like I like jerking off in the open air.
SPEAKER_03Is jerking off a crime?
SPEAKER_02Is jerking off a crime is a cr is a wild line.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Almost my intro, but I was like, you know what? The subject matter is a little too dark for me to go that silly too early.
SPEAKER_02Same thing. I was gonna say this podcast is the size of my dick, and then I decided not to. I was like, that's not for this episode.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, they try to coerce this guy into confessing just like they did Quang Ho, but it doesn't work out.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting. He tells the suspect is like, look, the brutality of the newspapers is more exciting than the porno mags. Like I he basically tells them, like, I'm not the killer, but the idea of this fantasy excites me. Like this, the the horrible things that are happening excite me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And Park is telling the chief, like, yeah, I'll know as soon as I see this suspect's face, I'll know if he's the killer. But meanwhile, we see Cho already putting the shower cap on his shoes. So we know they're just back to their bullshit.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And so Tae Yoon decides to investigate the outhouse behind the girls' middle school because of that story he heard. Mm-hmm. And he runs it to a teacher who informs him of a woman she saw crying in the house behind the outhouse behind the girls' middle school. So he heads there and he tries to ask her some questions, but she's not having it. She doesn't want to speak to him.
SPEAKER_02He sees her wearing a red garment and he just knows. He knows what he's dealing with.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And so he enlists the help of Officer Kwan, who comes and interviews this woman and asks her what happened. And she says that she was almost killed in the exact same way as the other girls, but he let her go because she didn't look into his eyes. And at this point, I'm like, oh, so Park's the killer with the whole eyes thing, right?
SPEAKER_02Sure, that makes sense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But she also tells him he didn't have rough hands like you would expect. His hands were very soft, which will come into play later. And so Taeyun tells Park and Joe to let their suspect go after he checks his hands and noticing that they're rough from working in the quarry.
SPEAKER_02And we get an insane line where they say, Did you tie that man to the ceiling? And Park's like, Well, yeah, he kept lying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And so Park and Taeyun start to tussle because they just are clashing over their different ways of investigating this thing, but it starts to rain, and the song begins playing on the radio. And before they can actually do anything, another girl is found dead. Immediately. Immediately, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And the chief like finds the time of death and is like, This happened while you two were fighting in this fucking office.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And so during the victim's autopsy, the coroner removes nine pieces of a peach, including the pit, from this girl's vagina. Mm-hmm. Man, that's rough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. This seems to be what finally breaks him. He's like, You're right, I'm not good at my job. He destroys his own journal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, him tearing apart that book of potential suspects is like a turning point for him.
SPEAKER_02It is. It is. And they sort of start to switch places. Like Tayun is like, my way of doing things, the correct way of doing things isn't getting results. And Park is like, well, I should be a better cop. And meanwhile, Kwan is like, we figured out where this postcard came from. We're able to figure out who has been requesting these songs. So they go to find this suspect, and he has almost no reaction to being caught.
SPEAKER_03Dude, this guy is Korean Paul Dano. Like, this is him in the Batman where they where they come to get him at the coffee shop. Yeah, you're right. I wonder if Villainu saw this movie as well for prisoners, because I can see the inspiration between like the calm Demetered Paul Dano in that movie versus how calm and collect Huangyu is in this.
SPEAKER_02I would guarantee Matt Reeves has seen Memories of Murder.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and this is Park Haile, who is also in uh the host. Yeah. Again, that movie fucks. Everybody should watch it.
SPEAKER_03He's so good.
SPEAKER_02He's so calm here. There's no way he thinks he's going down for this. And again, the movie never really tells us that he did it. Yeah. But I'm pretty sure it was him.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's we'll talk about that when we get to the end. Yeah. But yeah, I love that Taey Eun immediately is like, let me check your hands, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's good police work. And he he straight up tells them, he's like, Yeah, I started working at this factory right before the first murder.
SPEAKER_03Yep. I did request all those songs. I knew everything about uh the girls that were murdered, but I didn't do it. And yeah, Tae Yoon asked him what the last song was that played during the window of the previous murders broadcast, but he's like, I don't know. And Tae Yoon's like, well, that makes you more guilty. You can't tell me what you called in so many times to listen to this radio station, you couldn't tell me what the last song was that played.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you weren't there the whole time. And then Cho starts to get rough with him, and Park pulls him off. He's like, We're not doing it that way. We gotta do it the right way.
SPEAKER_03And Hyungy tells them, I know you guys torture innocent people. The whole town knows it. I won't be one of them.
SPEAKER_02And I just love that he's smiling the whole time, and it could be seen as either annoyance or reminiscence as like Tayun recounts how the murder happened, and the whole time Park is silent and he's just staring at this man's face. Like he wants, please tell me something. You know, it's a really great silent performance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's having memories of murder. Oh shit. He said it. We figured it out. We figured it out. So Cho gets annoyed and just beats this guy, and the chief of police kicks him out of the investigative room. And with no evidence, no eyewitnesses, and no confession, Taeyun and Park are at a dead end. But Tae Yoon ponders how Quang Ho, that disabled man from earlier, could have known of the murders if Park really didn't tell him during his quote unquote confession. And so they listen back to the tape and realize Quang Ho wasn't describing the murder firsthand. He was detailing what he saw. He is their eyewitness.
SPEAKER_02And now, unfortunately, he's rightfully terrified of them. Yep. And no one trusts them. It's so funny. They go to this restaurant, and the news is basically like the police are fucking shitheads. Everyone should punch them in their dicks. Like this makes Cho like fighting mad.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It gets rowdy real fast.
SPEAKER_03Well, he overhears because he's been there drinking before Taeyun and Park even show up. Right. And they're looking for Quang Ho, and he's not there. And yeah, Cho's been there drinking because he got kicked off the case. And he overhears a couple of girls, like I think school girls, talking about how like the detectives should all have their dicks cut off for how ineffective they are. That line blew my mind. Yes. And this is where he just lashes out, he breaks the TV, he starts grabbing this girl by the hair and throwing her around. Yeah. And this is where Quang Ho shows up and he thinks this is a game all being played, but he picks up a nail board with a rusty nail sticking out and just stabs Cho in the leg with it. This is rough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And he he's really confused. Like he runs away. He's being chased by the police now. They're asking him to tell the story again, and he's like, I already told you. Like, what do you not understand? Yeah. And um, we start to see the murder from his perspective and the shot that he's having memories of a murder. He is. And the shot of him in the lightning, like seeing the killer, is terrifying.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. They show him Hyongyo's photo and ask if he's the murderer, but he's too scared to answer, recalling when he was a kid being thrown into a fire and how hot it was.
SPEAKER_02So this is a highly debated line. Like people have discussed whether this means the killer threw him in a fire and he recognized him. From that, if his father abused him as a child, if Cho somehow did it in an earlier altercation as a childhood bully.
SPEAKER_03I don't think it's any of that.
SPEAKER_02I don't either.
SPEAKER_03Burn scars are old.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it's him relating a recent trauma to an old one. I think he's confused.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I agree. And yeah, like the patrons of the bar, it's almost like that scene. You remember in I think it's the other guys where they go to uh Brett Gelman's house.
SPEAKER_02Getting a lot of other guys' vibes from the memory server.
SPEAKER_03But you remember when they go there and like they like it's told Tim or whatever, and then like they drive away and we cut to a new scene, and they're like down like in their car talking, but then Brett Gilman just starts showing he like has sprinted all the way from his house to their car, and he's like, I'm gonna get like it feels like that because the bar patrons show up, and then yeah, that guy in white pants just like out of nowhere, just like flying kicked park.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they continue the bar brawl blocks away. It's it's crazy. They were like, I'm not fucking done with you.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, this is where during the chaos, Quang Hoag escapes and Park chases after him, but unfortunately, he puts himself in harm's way. Oh god, dude, this shit Yeah, I know he stops on a set of train tracks, and yeah, an oncoming train runs him down.
SPEAKER_01So I do want to make one note where like I think this is important to know that this is the first time where like people are getting killed and murdered because of his shoddy police work, but this is the first time where he got to see it.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and it's when he's trying to do good police work, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the blood is on literally on his hands.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02You get the idea that he hasn't really seen violence this close up. Yeah, the the consequences of his actions like this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then you think about it the last time we tortured this poor boy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he can't be detached anymore.
SPEAKER_03The shot where after he gets hit by the train, you see the shoes he gifted him just next to the railroad tracks, I think is a striking image.
SPEAKER_02It's so good. And I it's implied that Park goes back to his girlfriend's house instead of to the police station. Like he's like, I don't even want to face any of this.
SPEAKER_03I love the little detail too, because this is just now pandemonium of the police chief checking his blood pressure in the office while he's on the phone. Yeah. I thought that was a great touch.
SPEAKER_02He's talking to the forensics guy, and the guy's like, Yeah, we have a semen sample. We have to send it to a forensics lab. And the chief says, So if the semen matches, like we have our guy, and the forensics guy essentially the line delivery is essentially, yeah, that would be good evidence. Like you fucking idiot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so they they send off this sample to America and they send off a sample of Hyung-yo's semen to try and match. And turns out Joe has tetanus uh from being stabbed with that rusty nail board, and he's like, Nah, it's fine, I'll walk it off.
SPEAKER_02I just need to sit down for a minute. Yeah, but they have to amputate, and Park is the person who has to sign for it. Like it's it somehow becomes his decision.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and man, the shot of yeah, just Joe on the operating table, just like looking at you can't tell if he's knocked out from anesthesia or if he's just glaring at him, but man, that's awful. But also good because this guy's a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_02He's a police of shit. And Park's girlfriend calls.
SPEAKER_03Did you say a police of shit?
SPEAKER_02I might have. I might have. Did you say Margaret Wahlberg? Uh Park's girlfriend calls him and basically is like, Do you have to keep doing this? And I love the moment of her just giving him an IV by the lake. Like this man is not stopped, he's not taking care of himself.
SPEAKER_04I love it.
SPEAKER_02And she's just hanging the bag from a tree. And it's just this nice little moment between them where they basically are like, Yeah, we could start over. We could leave all of this hell behind, but I can't. I gotta, I gotta solve this.
SPEAKER_03I love that Park and Quok's relationship doesn't ever turn, like he never like hits her or like yells at her or anything. I love that they are a genuinely sweet couple. Yeah. It's such an anomaly for a movie like this, you know?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah. And for police officers.
SPEAKER_03Wow. And so, yeah, Hyung Yu is let out because they can't hold him anymore. And so Tae Yoon just is staking him out 24-7, but he falls asleep. He notices when he wakes up that Hyungyo is getting on a bus and his car stalls out, so Hyungy gets away. And we cut to Quok, who is Park's girlfriend again, who is out late at night walking down the street, and she crosses past with one of the schoolgirls that Tae Yoon was speaking to earlier.
SPEAKER_02And you can see her realize she shouldn't be out right now. Yep. Like there's a moment where she stops, realizes it's dark, realizes she's vulnerable. And then from the POV of the killer, you watch him trying to decide between these two victims. And it's it's really well done. It's so scary, and he ultimately chooses the schoolgirl.
SPEAKER_01And the fucked up thing is as the viewer, you don't want any one of them to get killed, but it's also it has this like rooting for a certain one. Yeah. Because we spent more time with one. Right. You're you're like, I know this person more.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And this is the only one we actually get to see like kind of happening in real time. Like she's then bound and gagged as he carries her through the woods, and he lays these items gently on the ground, like a spoon, a ballpoint pin, a razor, and notably she does look up into his eyes, and we fade the black before we actually see the violence being committed.
SPEAKER_02And it's implied that this is the worst one yet. Because the police are speechless, one man's throwing up, the chief doesn't want to talk to the press for the first time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Her body's been mutilated with a razor, a pen and spoon are found inside her, and Taeu recognizes her as the girl he spoke with earlier, and this is where he snaps.
SPEAKER_02He met her earlier, she had hurt her back, and he helped put a band-aid on her back, and she covered up. Like she was really shy about it. She didn't want to show her back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And there's this really heartbreaking moment with Taeyun where he realizes it's her and he pulls her shirt down because he remembers she was shy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's an impeccably acted moment as well.
SPEAKER_03This guy's so fucking good. Yeah. He's such a good actor. But yeah, Taeyoon uh tracks Hyun Yu down and drags him out of his house into the rain to the entrance of a nearby railroad tunnel.
SPEAKER_02And tells him nobody will care if I kill you. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Hung Yoo confesses, but only because that's what Taeyoon wants to hear. And so, like, as they're tussling, you think Taeyun's about to kill this man, but Park shows up with the results of the semen analysis, and turns out there is no conclusive evidence to connect the two.
SPEAKER_02Which, you know, at this time it also could have been that one of the samples was contaminated or too much time had passed, or it's crazy that they sent the specimens back, right? Like you just give me the results. I don't I don't need you to send me like two cups of Jiz.
SPEAKER_03Like I don't I guess you kind of have to, right? It's evidence, technically.
SPEAKER_02I guess. Yeah, it's just I've never seen a return to Cinder on on Ejaculate before.
SPEAKER_03You never pulled a Jared Leto and gifted someone your semen and they gave it back to you.
SPEAKER_02No, so crazy. I haven't done that.
SPEAKER_03That's crazy. I love that even though it's raining, you can distinctively tell that Ten Yoon is crying when he's reading these results. Like you can see a tear slip out of his eye. It's so good.
SPEAKER_02And he says, This document is a lie. I don't need it. Like he's like, I am so sure you're the guy.
SPEAKER_03Well, two things about that. I love that he says that because the whole movie he's been saying documents can't lie, they never lie. And I think it's a great touch for him to finally go, I don't accept this as the answer. So therefore, this document's lying.
SPEAKER_02I need to finish this.
SPEAKER_03But also, I know tensions are high here, guys, but how about we don't let the paperwork get too wet, huh? Because they're like throwing it on the ground and everything.
SPEAKER_02I kept thinking the same thing. I was like, you're just, yeah, this is soggy now. Like the ink is gonna run.
SPEAKER_03And so Park asks Hung Yu to look into his eyes as Taeyun grabs his gun and tries to fire it point blank into Hyung Yu's face, but Park stops him and after uh staring into Hyung Yu's eyes for a while, he finally admits, shit, I don't know if you're the killer or not.
SPEAKER_02He says, Do you get up each morning too? Mm-hmm. He's like, You're just another guy, aren't you? Like, I can't tell if you're a person or a monster. And you see in Sun Kang Ho's face, I am a fraud. Yep. Like I I have nothing. I have nothing left. This is it.
SPEAKER_03This shot is so great, though, from his POV of just holding this man by the throat and looking into his eyes. It's so good. Yeah. And uh a train comes through the tunnel cutting through the paperwork on the tracks and separating Park and Taeyoon from Hyung Yu, who escapes into the tunnel, and Taeyoon tries to shoot him in the back, but Park stops him and lets the man disappear into the darkness. Yeah. It's good shit.
SPEAKER_02But you think for a second he's killed him. Yeah. Because he falls.
SPEAKER_01I think it does speak on Park on how it affected him that uh Guang Ho died. Yeah. Because you know he would have uh he would have joined in on beating the shit out of this guy. Yeah. Killing him even.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there was a time where he would have been like, absolutely, this is our guy. Shoot him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Let's take him in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02He can't say it wasn't him if we kill him.
SPEAKER_03But now, yeah, he can't do it anymore. Yeah. It's good character development. And also why I don't think the ending works, but we're about to get there.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_03So we jump to present day. It's 2003. Park and Quok are now married and have kids and they're living pretty comfortably. Park now sells juice extractors.
SPEAKER_02He's thinner too. Yeah. Did you notice that? Like he's he's like more relaxed. He doesn't have tension in his shoulders. He he seems like, yeah, he's really got it together.
SPEAKER_03He's a pretty good businessman too, because he's being driven around by the chauffeur.
SPEAKER_02I love the moment where they're talking to his son, and if he's been playing video games all night, and he pulls the son, look into my eyes. I can tell if you're lying. Yeah. But this time he actually is a detective and he's like, Yeah, your eyes are bloodshot. Like you've been playing video games all night.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so yeah, he's being driven around by a chauffeur, and Park asks him to stop the car as it passes alongside the same field he found the dead girls' bodies all those years ago. Yeah. And he steps out, he approaches the drainage ditch where he found the first victim and peers inside, but doesn't spot anything. And then, Nathan, this is your movie. Do you want to tell us what happens here at the end?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, at this point, a young girl walks by and asks him what he's looking for, and he says, Nothing really. And she tells him, I saw a man recently looking down there, and he said he remembered doing something here. And Park can't help himself. He asks, What did he look like? And she says, just normal, just a plain face, regular guy. And we end the film with Park looking directly into the camera, as though he's looking at the murderer watching the film in the theater, but also telling us, like, I'll never solve this. This has haunted me my entire life. It's a stunning final shot. Even if the prologue or the epilogue, rather, doesn't totally ring true. I do think that that is like an all-time final shot.
SPEAKER_03I agree. I agree. I think it's a fantastic ending. I will say Wikipedia says that he is shaken by the realization that the killer blends into society and could be anybody. I think that can be inferred, but the movie is not directly telling you that.
SPEAKER_02I agree.
SPEAKER_03I also love that we don't get any closure on Taeyun or Hyung Yu. We just get it from Park's perspective.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it feels like I totally get what you mean. Like Park feels like the kind of person who would never let this go, but I also do think that this broke him down. And maybe this wasn't his last case, but I do think eventually he just had to leave this life because he realized I'm not good at this. This is not, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't know how to articulate exactly why it doesn't ring true to me, but I started thinking about it last night after I finished the movie, and I was like, Well, the whole movie, you know, he's thinking he has this intuition that he can just look into someone's eyes and know if they're guilty or something or not. Right. And by the end of the movie, he realizes, no, I can't do that. I'm a fraud. There's no way to know that you need hard evidence and everything. Right. And for the movie then to have this little girl say, Oh, well, the guy that showed up here just had a plain face. He just looked like everybody else. There's no distinctive qualities I can tell you that would, you know, signify anything. He seems to then have like this epiphany. But again, I don't know how to how to articulate it, but like I feel like that doesn't mean anything significant. Like if there was a thing where, like, you know, early in the movie we s it's hard because the only surviving victim said, Oh, I didn't see his face. And Quang Ho doesn't describe his face. And I would argue that Hyung Yu doesn't have an ordinary face. He is a handsome as shit gentleman.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it's more so him feeling feeling that lack of closure. I I don't see it as him thinking, oh, this it could be anybody. I think it's twofold. I think it's him realizing this is always going to elude me. I'm gonna I'm gonna think about this for the rest of my life. And I think part of it is also Bong Jun-ho genuinely wanting to spook the killer. I really do. And and there's this uh this fascinating interview with him where he said something along the lines of like, the killer was eventually apprehended years after this film was released, and Bong Jun-ho was like, I'm not ready to see what this man looks like. I've read I've read the articles about it. I don't think I'm ready to like engage with that. And to a certain extent, maybe that's what's haunting Park is that maybe he doesn't want to know, but he he has to know, and he'll never know. And all of that is all tied up in why he can never completely rest, uh, even though his life seems all put together. I don't there's there's so many different things that I think you can infer from that final shot, which is why it works for me, but I also completely see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03Well, do we know if the killer ever actually did see the movie?
SPEAKER_02I don't know, actually.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Just curious. But yeah, I I feel like there's something I mean, I get that it's kind of a meta ending of like it could be anybody. That doesn't necessarily have to be distinctive features for you to be able to tell this is the killer. But also, from the perspective of the movie, I can't say definitively one way or another whether Hyung Yu did do it or not.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the killer was already serving time in prison when he was linked to the real life murders.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02And he told the police he had seen the film while in prison and said, I felt nothing while watching it.
SPEAKER_03That seems about right.
SPEAKER_02He said he didn't even see himself in the story, he just watched it like it was a movie.
SPEAKER_03I I have to imagine, of course, that's how he reacted to it. But also, yeah, this guy's still alive. If you're curious, go look it up. But uh yeah, I I can't say one way or another whether Hyung Yu did it. He probably did do it, but without hard evidence, it's hard to say one way or another. And I don't know. Uh something about the ending just doesn't ring true to me. I still love it, I still think it's brilliant. Yeah, I just something's not working for me.
SPEAKER_02It is also one of those movies where like the lack of closure is the point, but it's also frustrating. Like it feels slightly incomplete, which is why I don't think it's a perfect film.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it really works for me in the things that it does well.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, man. Like, I I didn't know that there was a real life killer on the loose. And uh so I saw that ending as like a I'll never know. He's he has a plain face, and there's nothing distinctive to that we'll never find him. I'm not a detective anymore. But there you gotta think about the stuff that he's also had to deal with. Yeah. Like, how many other girls has he hurt throughout the years because I didn't catch him? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's also the idea that like maybe the person that this girl saw wasn't the killer, it could just be another guy who was like, Yeah, I had a party here by the drainage ditch one time, you know. Or it was the tractor driver or something like that.
SPEAKER_01That's fair. Or it was the kid that kept mocking him. That's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I I just feel like Wang Junho is trying to make a statement with the fact that she says the guy had an ordinary face, and I feel like that doesn't represent anything related to the movie I just saw.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_03And I don't know how to again, I don't know how to articulate it exactly. Again, I don't have a problem with it. I still think this is a great movie. Yeah. I just I can't put my finger on what that whole little epilogue doesn't why it doesn't work for me necessarily, but I still love it. I see what you mean. Yeah, that's uh Memories of Murder. Any final notes, boys, before we get to the wrap-up segments?
SPEAKER_01No, we covered all of my notes actually. The kid in the the opening that was like mimicking him. Yeah, was that the woman's son? Is that what was implied? Like he because he was the only one that was like standing over the thing. No, I think he was just being a little shithead. I think he was just a random kid, right? Yeah, I do too. Well, he did a double take. He went down to look at the woman's face and then looked at him and he just stared at it kind of like in a puzzling thing, and then it went to the title card.
SPEAKER_02I think he's just trying to be like, what's this kid's fucking problem?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think like Nathan said, yeah, they don't take the police seriously at this time.
SPEAKER_02So that's why, like it shows us from the beginning that even the kids are like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. When it comes to the police.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I guess it reflects later when like kids are just running around a crime scene. Right, exactly. Jumping over dead bodies and shit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Jumping over dead bodies.
SPEAKER_03It's also like just it shows how unserious that they see the police, right? Like that they're just able to mock them. Yeah. Like they probably wouldn't do that to their own parents, but they'll do it to the fucking police. Right. Uh all right. Well, let's get over to Prop Cop boys. So if you're new to the show, Prop Cop is where we are going to each pick one prop from the movie we would hypothetically love to own for ourselves. And Nathan gets first dids because this is his pick. So, what prop do you want, Nathan?
SPEAKER_02You know what? I want to eat a little healthier. I want to get that juice extractor.
SPEAKER_03Oh, hell yeah. I actually would love one of those too. Hell yeah. JC, what about you?
SPEAKER_01I want the uh camera that he uses to take those uh Polaroids.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, the little uh disposable camera, whatever it is. Yeah, like that. I just want some of that sweet tenderloin, man. That should look delicious. Hell yeah, it did. So fucking hungry. Uh all right. What about a bit part? There's lots of extras in this movie. Who should we play? And I gotta tell you, I picked this bit part specifically for this movie. Here we go.
SPEAKER_05Have you seen a Korean guy around here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, only when I open my eyes, though.
SPEAKER_03That's good. Uh, who should we play in the movie, boys? Nathan, who do you want to be?
SPEAKER_02We meet the chief's wife for just a few minutes and she's following behind him like you gotta eat a fucking sandwich. And I I thought that was a really fun little bit.
SPEAKER_03Uh I want to be the guitar player at the karaoke bar. Yeah, that's a good one. Share some screen time with Sun Kang Ho and all of them. That's great.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01JC, what about you? I'm gonna be the uh kid in the bar fight that's doing way too much. Yes. Like chasing him down the block.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Hell yeah. It's just Mally's not here. I'm gonna make him the guy that's in the wig and the dress for the reenactment.
SPEAKER_02Good. That's still so crazy.
SPEAKER_03All right, boys. Here we are. We gotta find a silver lining to one of the movie's most upsetting endings, Memories of Murder. So what do we got?
SPEAKER_01It's funny that there's just silence. I got one. Can I go first? Sure. Detective Cho can't stop out innocent people anymore.
SPEAKER_03I wrote the same thing, yeah. Can't really stop someone out if you got only one leg. Uh I wrote down that at least the citizens of this town won't be wrongfully arrested and tortured anymore. Well, we don't know that.
SPEAKER_01It might not be about our characters here, but you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Mine was um was a meta silver lighting.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02The real murderer was caught in real life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a good one. All right. Well, I think we absolutely need one for this episode in particular, boys. What is a movie people should watch after they watch Memories of Murder as a pick-me-up alternative? I'm gonna go with another movie where one group of women are victims, but then their successors get revenge on their murderer, and I'm gonna go with Death Proof.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_03What about you, Nathan?
SPEAKER_02I went with a movie I just saw for the first time, the 1983 film Project A. Oh. Written, directed by, and starring Jackie Chan, which is a very different uh type of police movie. It's uh Hong Kong Marine Police in the late 19th century fighting pirates. Oh. And it's very kinetic, very fun, very funny, and filled with some absolutely fucking insane stunts.
SPEAKER_03Right on. JT, what about you?
SPEAKER_01I am going to go with Iron Lung. Oh, what a what a fun movie to watch after this. Yeah. Hey, double featured pick me up. Okay, you know what? Masters of the universe wasn't awful.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Okay. I like the total whiplash you're gonna have from these two films. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Put Skeletor in the Iron Lung sub. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I will say Iron Lung, not a bad movie. I've yeah, I'm actually kind of impressed with all the YouTubers making movies today. Like I thought Obsession was good. I thought uh, what's the other one? Backrooms was pretty good. Iron Lung is just too long.
SPEAKER_02Iron Lung needed a different editor.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it did. It sure did. All right, boys. Do we recommend Memories of Murder? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You sounded so sad. I'm so sleepy.
SPEAKER_02I do with caveats. Yeah. It's so heavy, and I don't think it's one that you go into without kind of knowing what it's about. I th I think you should maybe listen to the episode and then give it a shot. I'm not sure. It's I think it's a masterpiece, but it's definitely not for everybody. It's a supremely uncomfortable movie, but I think it's also incredibly well made.
SPEAKER_01Now that you mentioned that, I was looking up some of the content warnings on this. Yeah. And I thought it was so funny because one of them was just there's literally naked women. Oh. Like that was the content. And the rest of the stuff is in detail. Like it'll tell you like a spoiler free scene, but this is what's in this. Yeah. And then one of them was just there's literally naked women. There's literally naked women.
SPEAKER_03I guess there literally are, yeah. Jeez. Uh no, I kind of agree. I would say that like the subject matter is dark, but the movie is not so grim or exploitative. Like, yeah, they're mostly talking about things. You've you've See, like they find the women's bodies, but it's as tastefully done as it can be.
SPEAKER_02I also think if you love Parasite, which I think has been like a big entry point for South Korean films for Americans, if you loved Parasite, definitely check this one out because you can see the germination of those ideas and the things that Bong Jun-ho is interested in exploring throughout his career. There's a weird thematic through line between this and Snowpiercer and Parasite.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. And it's crazy to me that this was only his second movie. That's fucking bananas.
SPEAKER_02It's so accomplished.
SPEAKER_03And then to make the host right after this was a baller filmmaker. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Fucking host rules.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I would say this isn't my favorite of his movies, but it's definitely up there. It is a very well-made movie. It's very well acted. The story's compelling. I just really wish that ending worked better for me. I mean again, I still love it. I don't want people to think I didn't like it. I still loved it. Just it prevented me from giving it five stars. So sorry to say that.
SPEAKER_05Sure.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, that's it for Memories of Murder. Thank you so much for listening to the show. If you haven't already, go uh leave us some feedback, rate, subscribe wherever you're listening right now. You can follow us on social media. You can check out the website, tslppodcast.com, where we've got links to everything and more. You can join our free Discord if you haven't already. Tons of fun happening there. And lastly, check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash silver linings playlist if you want more of the show. On the Patreon this week, we just released our commentary on Harry and the Henderson's for diamond lining tier members.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I will say, if you're not a diamond lining tier member, this month only you can upgrade to that tier for free for the month of August so you can gain access to not just the Harry and the Hendersons commentary, which is so much fun, but our first TSLP commission on Shark Attack 3 Megalodon. Yeah. Use the link in the show notes of this episode, wherever you're listening to us right now, to claim that free month. The reason we're doing this is sort of a uh, you know, sorry we couldn't give you a mini-series like we normally do for the month of August, but that's because we also are releasing the massive two-hour and 40-minute long 10-year anniversary special on August 15th. Hell yeah. Which we want everyone to be able to hear for free. So you can get that wherever you get podcasts. So yeah, we're giving you one month free of the diamond lining tier, but it's only two dollars a month after that. If you want to stick around, you get a ton of bonuses. So yeah, there you go. All right. I think the only bit of business we have left to do, boys, is I gotta give you a clue for what we're gonna be talking about in two weeks on my episode pick. And my clue is I like parties. Do you want a party?
SPEAKER_05Do you want a party?
SPEAKER_03We're gonna have a lot of fun on the next episode. Yeah. Big uh tonal shift from this week's episode. But uh, yeah, that's all I got to say. Thank you for listening. Rest in peace, Oatmeal, and as always, I don't eat burnt meat.
SPEAKER_02You're dumping shit on cooked rice here.
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